Emma Grose, CEO & Co-founder of MABLE & HAY! Straws (Interview 5/100)

Once again, this was a delightful and thought-provoking conversation with another female leader, Emma Grose MABLE & HAY! Straws. We get into the trials and tribulations of manufacturing, including the impact of recent tariffs on the sales of sustainable products in the United States. While that proves to be “a massive challenge” (in her words), her calm demeanor that approaches this current hot topic challenge, in the same way that she approaches all challenges. She’s careful to remind us that while this is a difficult time for most businesses in and associated with the United States, there are always challenges. She says, “it’s a crazy world out there right now, but you’ve got to remain optimistic and hope the good will prevail.” 

It also struck me that she pointed out to me that when they were pitching to venture capital groups, she didn’t see any other females in those rooms. She underlines especially the gap in those educating and mentoring other women in the VC and entrepreneur space. While we both agree that females generally tend to bring a different perspective by simply being different from the standard person at the table and that it’s starting to change, but there are still not enough women at these tables. Right after this conversation, I was delighted to see an old friend from college announcing her company’s launch in the venture capital world with COCKY Ventures. 

I’ll also point out that, just like each of the interviews before her, she emphasized how much continuing to grow your knowledge base and soaking up more information can lead to confidence in asserting yourself in a new space. Admitting what you don’t know yet and listening to those who have wisdom and knowledge to share, are keys to continued success. Once again, let’s hear it for the lifelong learners! 

In the name of shining a spotlight on others in the world doing things the right way, she gives a pointed shout out to the refillery companies and zero-waste stores popping up in communities all over. In Louisville, KY, we have Peace of the Earth. 

Early and bonus shows as well as curated discussions and merch are available on Patreon.

Instagram | BioSite (with links to listen & more)

Transcript

Hey folks, thanks so much for coming to the Capitalism for Good Podcast. It's here where we'll focus on exploring how we both make and spend our dollars to benefit the greater good. Folks, I am so excited to share today's interview with you. It is with Emma Grose. She is the CEO and co-founder of MABLE and HAY! Straws.

They're both sustainable manufacturing brands creating and designing sustainable products like toothbrushes, both manual and electric toothbrush heads, straws, cutlery, floss, cotton swaps, stir sticks, all sorts of things. I am amazed at what they have been able to do. And you know, if you aren't all interested in sustainable product swaps, the anti-Amazon movement, if you work in hospitality and or you are in charge of any of the purchasing decisions in the service industry or the hospitality industry, if you are interested in what it's like to be a female leader in a male dominated space, or if you aren't all interested in the impacts of tariffs on sustainable products, specifically here in the US in May of 2025, we get into all of these things.

I am so honored that she took the time to speak to me. There are a lot of commonalities in both of our personalities, and I also just, much like the other interviews that I've done so far, have learned so much from her. And one of the things that we get into when we talk about is the importance of having role models that are similar to you and educators that are similar to you in your field.

So you've got someone to kind of look up to and soak in some knowledge in. And while we might talk a little bit about the lack of women in those types of spaces, she herself is filling that space. And I am incredibly honored and very happy to share her with you.

I will post links to not only both of her brands in the show notes, but also anyone else that we talk about throughout this conversation. Enjoy. Hi Emma.

Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Do you mind taking a minute to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about your experiences that led up to being the co-founder of Mable and HAY! Straws? Sure. Hi, everyone.

I'm Emma Grose. I'm one of the founders of Mable and HAY! Straws.

Super excited to be here today. So thanks for having me.

We actually started our Mable Company first back in 2016. And that was with three of us, three co-founders, myself, Gilmar and Alexi. The three of us were like three friends looking to make a positive change in the world.

Alexi had actually designed the self-standing bamboo toothbrush that he had named Mable. And Gilmar and I saw that and thought it was really cool. This is back when bamboo toothbrushes were not, you know, in every supermarket.

They were kind of unusual at that stage. And my design background, I just thought, yeah, this is a cool looking toothbrush. It's awesome that it's sustainable.

And I've always had an interest in the environment and sustainability. So for me, that was just a big sell point. It was like combining two passions of design and also sustainability.

So yeah, we kind of jumped into Mable. It started a little bit as like a passion project of, you know, I was working on the design, marketing and social media. And that was sort of a bit of a side hustle along with my full-time job.

And at some point, quit my job and sort of started on Mable full-time. And a couple of years into doing Mable, that's when we discovered our second brand or product called HAY! Straws, which are drinking straws made from natural wheat stems.

And because we were mostly in bathroom products for Mable, it didn't really make sense to add them as a product to that brand. So we actually created a separate brand called HAY! Straws.

And then that, you know, kind of ran parallel to Mable. And we were sort of brother-sister companies under the one umbrella.

That's amazing. I, so one of the things that I do, I'm constantly talking to my network about what they think, people in all different kinds of fields. And one thing that has come up when I talked to them about interviewing you was, and this is the same for most sustainable products and manufacturers, is the price point.

And it's assumed that the sustainable and environmentally-friendly products are often the more expensive, the harder-to-find type of products. But I just did a quick search on your websites and then looked, I compared Sonicare, the electric toothbrush heads that you all have that fit in. And just to talk about prices in general, the Sonicare toothbrushes that seemed to be equitable to the alternative option you guys have comes down to $10.65 each.

And yours for a four-pack comes out to about $5.00 each. That means that yours is 53% cheaper. Can you talk a little bit about what it's been like to price these things to be able to develop affordable alternatives to some of our mainstream plastic things, especially in today's world?

I mean, I hesitate to even talk about prices because I know that that's a real dynamic issue right now. But that's a, that is a huge, huge difference.

Yeah, I mean, I think there, there is a misconception that sustainability is always a lot more expensive. I think, you know, eight to ten years ago, that definitely was truth. Like a lot of sustainable items were like three or four X the price of one now.

But over time, I think manufacturers have started specializing in these eco-materials, and the volume they're producing over time has, you know, collectively helped bring down the cost of sustainable products, and that higher demand, you know, has kind of pushed that. I will say that it definitely depends on the product, because I think that it's still a challenge as an eco-friendly manufacturer. You know, sometimes we simply, if we're just comparing a plastic item with a sustainable item, often we cannot beat it.

Like, there's no way even our cost to buy it from a manufacturer will be higher. But I think when you're comparing other eco-alternatives or the value proposition for the customer, they are willing to pay more to have a sustainable item. And often we can price at a point where it is affordable to sort of like the middle income consumer to be able to switch.

You know, I think for us, it's when we started out, we were selling a Mable toothbrush at like $10, which at the time was outrageous, like, right? And I think a lot of our friends were like, you guys are crazy. Like no one's going to buy this thing.

And, you know, at the time we were like, this is too expensive, but with the costs, you know, we weren't able to really sell it for a lot less. And over time that price has like come down significantly. So like, our retailers now might sell that same toothbrush at $5, but we also offer like an eco-friendly sort of a more basic version at like $2.50 to the consumer.

So it's always been part of our mission to make it accessible because we want more people to be able to switch to an eco product. So, you know, over time, we're always working to like, try to figure out ways to make it more accessible. Because I think ultimately people care about money and how much things cost, and everyone compares apples with apples.

And even though a plastic toothbrush is different from a bamboo one, like they're always going to look at like you versus Colgate, right? How much extra are you before they make that switch and kind of have that internal battle of whether they pay maybe a bit more, or maybe in some cases they actually pay less to get a bamboo toothbrush.

Yeah. What has that journey been like? I mean, you talked about the manufacturers, the availability of manufacturers that produce sustainable products is different now than it was almost 10 years ago when you guys first started.

Were there other kind of unexpected hurdles or was there a lot of shopping around to get you to the point where you all are now?

I mean, I think like anything, and this is the case now as it was 10 years ago, like there's different quality levels of manufacturing. So, you know, you can always go with like the cheapest manufacturer, but that could mean, you know, ethics are compromised. It could be qualities compromised.

So there were probably less people specializing in those eco products back then, but there was still like the higher quality, lower quality issues where you still had to go through, you know, and get samples from different manufacturers to test what their quality level was like. Um, yeah, I'm sorry. Did that answer the question?

I think there was a second part to that.

Yeah, it kind of makes sense in just talking about like, that there are differences between manufacturers and the environment that we're in these days seems to have changed kind of over time since you guys have been in the business.

Yeah, I think it's changed a lot, but yeah, some other principles around selecting stuff are still similar. But like I say, I think the volume, the sheer volume difference from now versus 10 years ago or 8 years ago is just, yeah, like they're able to buy materials in bulk, which brings down the costs significantly for us when we're buying our product off them.

Is the same true for the HAY! Straws as well? Again, in just looking at your products, there is it often a stigma when it comes to the alternative to the plastic straw, that they get goopy, that they fall apart, that they don't hold up as well, and all of these other things.

Your products are not like that. In searching for the quality to back up your manufacturing, was it the same journey that you all took for the toothbrushes when you guys were starting out doing the straws?

I think they were a little bit different, mostly because bamboo toothbrushes, there were a few suppliers that specialized in making those. With the HAY! straws, no one was making that at scale yet when we kind of launched it.

So some of the suppliers we visited early on were like very rudimentary, like cutting with like scissors and like no technology behind this stuff. Because, you know, they were just, no one was interested at that point in buying a straw like this in volume. I think we were one of the first to actually build out a fully natural straw, you know, in the millions versus just like a few boxes here and there being sold.

So we actually went on quite a journey for HAY! Straws. It started out, yeah, visiting existing manufacturers who really didn't know what they were doing.

They were just kind of like, yeah, we have this product, but it hadn't really been refined as to how it was made. And certainly the quality was very poor. So we didn't feel confident in moving forward with those manufacturers.

So we even did things like looked at whether we could make it in the US., you know, how much it would cost to set something up, you know, in the USA, which is kind of interesting now that this tariff thing comes into play, because our conclusion was there were two big problems with bringing it to the US. One was the cost of it would just be astronomical and people wouldn't pay it.

One of the second reasons was equipment, specialized manufacturing equipment in the US. It's a very expensive process to have something engineered here. And it also can take like, I don't know, six months to a year versus somewhere like China or elsewhere overseas.

They can research and develop these things within like a month or two months. And you've got an operation like up and running. And at that time, our demand was so high, our sales were doubling month over month.

We needed to be able to grow quickly. And so we did all the math and we ran the research on building it out here in the US. And it simply like couldn't get up and running in time.

And the cost was going to be astronomical both for the end product and the upstart cost for us. So we kind of focused initially on a manufacturer we were working with in China who was really high quality and was able to be nimble with us as we grew and also had the same values of like sustainability and, you know, kind of working with us on a brand new product and kind of co-developing that with us. So in the end, that's sort of why we decided to take our manufacturing overseas because it was the most viable option for us at the time.

And it allowed us to grow and scale, you know, quickly and keep up with demand, which was probably a key part of our success in those early years was just being able to actually meet demand. Yeah.

Are you okay with talking a little bit about the current environment and what that impact has been on you all? Like, are you at a point where you have to consider manufacturing in the US or or focus on sales outside of the US at all? Or or maybe something else?

I think all of the above. I think it's certainly a massive challenge, not just for us who do currently manufacture in China, but basically any business right now, whether they're a US made product or not, the lack of transparency around what's going to happen in the next three months, let alone four years, is making it very difficult to actually just make a business decision For example, like I'm at a point where I'm like, okay, we could consider manufacturing one in the US, which we know that that's probably still, even with increased tariffs, it's still not really viable and it would take us six months to a year to set up, and we would probably have to inject a huge sum of capital.

So that's very difficult when moving, manufacturing wouldn't require us to inject capital, it would just require us to shift manufacturers to a different country, for example. But that's difficult because tariffs have been put in, they've been paused, they've been changed overnight. You know, it has a massive impact on a small business, like we have a container of product in transit right now, and it's like one day it's a 45% tariff, the next day it's 125, three days later it's 145%, and it's like there's nothing we could do, we weren't given any warning, this is just kind of something we're having to like deal with.

So it's certainly making us rethink, you know, is it worth changing manufacturers, countries? Like you said, focusing on other international markets is definitely something we're already pivoting to do. But even when I look at, okay, where would we switch manufacturing to?

I don't know yet because these other tariffs have been paused for 90 days, what the consequence in 90 days might be, right? So I actually, even if I want to, I can't really make a decision right now based on the information I have because that information is changing at an unprecedented rate. And even, for example, if I was a manufacturer within the US making, let's just say like t-shirts or I'm selling coffee, like coffee is not made in the US.

It has to be imported as a bean and roasted here. And automatically now there's at least another 10% increase, which means to the end consumer, like unfortunately, that's always going to land on them. So things are getting more expensive whether you make your product here or not, because the raw ingredients typically part or some are coming from overseas.

Whether that's, you know, China, Canada, Mexico, somewhere, right? And I think it's a scary time. Like I think a lot of people are feeling anxious about all this uncertainty.

And I think as a business owner, it's very difficult because you kind of, you sort of are like just hoping that things will go the way you want them to, but you're not really sure what's going to happen in three months, which definitely makes planning difficult. I think, you know, within the next month or two, we will have to make some hard decisions based on what's happening politically and geopolitically. But at this point, we're kind of just waiting to see, you know, whether there's a final statement around tariffs in general worldwide, because I think until that decision is made, it's pretty difficult to shift manufacturing.

It's not as simple as turning a light switch on or off.

Yeah. I think a lot of the listeners to this podcast are focused on, kind of, well, I'll back up to the idea of how it all started was, again, within my network of people, there's so much talk of how do we have more control over where our dollars are spent and what happens with it. And there are these big giant brands, and it feels like there aren't any other choices than these companies that have monopolies over things.

And we don't love the impact on the environment or we don't love the impact that we're seeing in the political world, or whatever it is, and how do we be more intentional? How do we choose those types of things? So I just want to say that it is unfortunate that you guys are in this position to where you're a company that's doing good within our global community, and it takes a global community, it takes global partners in order to make these things happen.

And it's unfortunate that the consumers on this end are the ones that are gonna pay the price, specifically those that are actively seeking out, how do we find more sustainable brands? How do we find things that we can feel really good about purchasing?

Yeah, I mean, it's a crazy world out there right now, but you gotta remain optimistic and hope that the good will prevail.

We've got to try. That's all we can do is try for sure.

Yeah, definitely.

And kind of talking about the external chaos of the world, even before Tariff started, even before anything, it feels like there's... We live in a very fast moving world. It feels like there's never enough time to be able to get everything done.

There's never enough brain space. We're always pressed for all of these things. And it just...

I can't think of a better word other than chaos, even though now we have even more chaos. But focusing that kind of internally on your company. So we know that it's chaos out there.

How do you keep stability internal with your company culture? Like, what's your... talk a little bit about your management philosophy from where you all sit at as a co-founder of these two brands.

Yeah. I mean, I think when you've been in business for a while, you've become a bit more seasoned with these unexpected things. Because it happens like every...

You know, it's always going to happen. Like things go up and down. You know, one day you'll wake up with an email that will like rock your world because it's like something awful or maybe something great.

So I think I take comfort in these tumultuous times with reminding myself that, okay, business like life, it's some flows. You have like your good years, your bad years and your times where you're just like, wow, I got slapped in the face. So I think as far as like company culture and kind of keeping the team motivated during that time, I like to be transparent with them and say like, here are our challenges right now.

Like here's what we're facing. Usually we'll have a brainstorm around that. Just, you never know people within the team come from different backgrounds and have different ideas around things we could try to mitigate some of our challenges.

So I like to do that. And then I also like to focus on what is working and what is successful. You know, even if overall, for example, sales might be down, but we're seeing like an increase in like subscription customers.

Like that's still a positive thing, even though maybe overall there is a downward trend that's showing us that something we're doing is working in that space. And it kind of helps highlight for the team. You know, in some cases, it might be one of them's taken an initiative to like increase subscriptions.

And it's like, well, kudos, you like did that. You helped increase that. So I think my philosophy is, is yeah, like, let's be real.

It's a difficult time And like, we're not sure as leaders how this might affect our company, but let's focus on what's working. And also, you know, it's, it's sort of like you got to have grit and just kind of, I think sometimes perseverance and showing up is kind of what people need to see.

And I think that's something that being in business for a while does teach you is like, you do have to keep showing up. If you crumble every time you face a challenge, you'd be out of business like years ago, because it's constant. Like, yeah, things are going smoothly.

You're feeling really good. And then something awful will happen, or what seems awful at the time happens. And, you know, you get through it and you look back and you're kind of like, oh, okay, like, we did make it through that.

Like, it's okay. We've been in these hard times before. So it's sort of just reminding yourself that, you know, it's like a tide.

It goes in, it goes out. You just have to kind of be constant in it.

Yeah. I, my background personally is in, I worked for a number of different nonprofits from fundraising, program management, grant administration all over. And I always thought that those times were like, things seemed to be going really smoothly and things were on the up and up.

I was like, okay, we, there's gotta be something that we're not paying attention to here. There's gotta be something that like, where, where is it? There's something's gonna go wrong.

We gotta be prepared for that. We can celebrate that things are going really well, but like, something's gonna happen here, probably.

Yeah. You always have to be prepared, but sometimes it's good just to celebrate the wins and the good times. I think like that's super important, too, when they do happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Take the good when you can get it.

In talking about challenges, another thing that constantly comes up with my network, that came up specifically when I was telling them that I was gonna interview you, was what it was like to be a female co-founder in this world. At least the perception is, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but the perception is that it's male dominated from that level. Has that been your experience?

Yeah, I definitely think that's true. And starting out here in San Francisco, there's a ton of tech VCs. It's very male dominated.

And for the most part, you're like, oh, it doesn't really affect you as a female founder, but you certainly, I think, find yourself in situations where, when you're working with male colleagues or other co-founders, I do think it highlights, I think for a lot of females, it's not that we're risk adverse. I think we just like to analyze risk differently from men. And so, you know, they're very often very quick to jump to a conclusion, make a decision, which sometimes means like speed and making the right decision.

And sometimes it actually means they haven't thought everything through and like making the wrong decision. So I think that's certainly something. I think when I look at some of the challenges of being female, I think it is around not having a lot of role models, mentors, educators in that space.

Like, you know, if you're an entrepreneur or a CEO or a co-founder, and you're looking up like podcasts, books, there's just, or finance, right? How to manage, you know, a P&L, all that stuff, accounting. A lot of it is written by males for males.

And so I think you can often feel like, you know, a bit of a fraud because you're not hearing female voices in that space. And it's really challenging to find other women. You know, I think women, there's lots of amazing women doing, you know, small businesses and sort of where it might just be like them plus like one other person or a couple of people.

It's harder to find, I think, women leading larger companies or like scaling kind of things. I mean, that's changing now, I think, but it's just hard to find resources on that. Or even like meet up groups, people that can mentor you.

Typically, they are males and it's kind of like, it's just there's not as much relatability when you're seeking that out. I think when you hear it from another female, it just resonates a lot better. So I think that's certainly a challenge.

In the early days when we were trying to raise money for HAY! Straws, at that stage, I was not CEO, I was a co-founder. So I was not responsible for raising funds, but my two other male colleagues and co-founders were.

And I do remember being in those VC meetings thinking like, wow, this is really a pissing contest. Like as a female sitting there, kind of like more taking a seat back and like listening, rather than like leading the conversation. I do remember thinking, yeah, this must be very difficult if you're a sole female trying to, or more than one female trying to raise funds.

I never met any other female, like venture capitalists that were coming into the meetings. So it certainly felt that felt very male dominated. And there have been other instances, like I'm probably unusual in that I do a lot of our manufacturing and sourcing.

And so that requires me to travel yet to places like China and meet with, you know, large manufacturers or people running manufacturing businesses who are typically male, right? And they're used to dealing with males and so I think that I was always kind of a unique person to be in front of them sitting at their tea table negotiating pricing and that kind of thing. But I was actually surprised by that.

I never felt like it was a major disadvantage for me. I did feel like, you know, if you come prepared with the right information and understanding, like the cultural context and background, you know, they'll respect you as much as a male. I think it's kind of, you know, standing your ground and kind of knowing, you know, showing that you know about the business and about pricing and kind of knowing what you want.

You can still achieve the same outcome. But I think that was always a surprising moment when I think back. I was very nervous the first few negotiations I went into thinking, well, I'm actually like a female, which I know is not maybe a preferred sex in this negotiation thing here.

But, you know, I don't think it was a disadvantage. I think, you know, I was still able to come up with fair pricing for all of us and, you know, build strong relationships despite that.

Yeah, that, it reminds me so much of, I think it was last week I interviewed Veronica Hernandez. She's the general manager of the Modesto Nuts. It is baseball team in Modesto, California near you.

You're in San Francisco, right?

Yeah, we actually have like some of our shipping goes out in Modesto. So, yeah.

Well, if you're ever there and you want to go to a baseball game, I would speak very highly of her. But I asked her a similar question about what it was like to be a female general manager of a men's baseball team. And she had some of the same feedback to give about just like, stand your ground, know your skills.

Like if you are educated and you know what you're talking about, like that will lead. Do you have any other advice to other women who are looking to be in a position similar to yours?

I mean, I think it's that saying like, channel the inner like middle-age privilege white men and what they would do. And it's like, it's so true because I think women, we totally undersell ourselves. Whereas like a male counterpart will often, you know, just have the confidence to fake it till they make it.

And so I think you have to remind yourself that that's who you're up against. So if you're not stepping up and like, you know, bringing that confidence, like you are at a disadvantage. So I think it's like always channel like, well, how would a male think and what would they say?

Like how would they hype themselves up in these like interviews or negotiations? I think if you kind of like channel part of their energy, not all of it, but kind of like think like they do and kind of, you know, act like you want that same type of respect, like you can, you can definitely get it. You just kind of have to.

Yeah. I mean, I think fake it till you make it's a great saying.

Totally. And, you know, now that I think about it, it's not really that dissimilar to it. Again, I'm going to compare to my background in fundraising or anything that's like client-facing sales, customer service.

Like, so much of the success in that is knowing the person that you're talking to and kind of meeting them where they are. And so whether we're talking about like you is the head of a company, is a female talking to all these males in charge of manufacturing or whatever that is, like it's the same thing that you would do if someone was in a different demographic, whether they're from a different country or a different part of the country or whatever that is. If they have, you know, you're going to kind of tailor your pitch, you're going to tailor your interactions a little bit to whoever that is that you're speaking to at that moment.

I imagine that the interactions between manufacturers are probably a little bit different than the people in VC that you're talking to and like all of those different things.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's like you say, being educated or seeking out that education if you're, if you feel like it's a knowledge gap is important because that's kind of what gives you the confidence to show up and be able to communicate with those different people.

Yeah. I'm going to switch gears a little bit because I want to talk a little bit about the community partnerships of both of those brands. So they're community give back portions for both Mable and HAY! Straws. Is that something that was key when you guys were first starting out or did you have to grow a little bit in order to be able to implement some of those community partnerships and give back programs?

Yeah, good question. For Mable, we always started out wanting to do a give back program. So I think the initial prototype was like buy one, give one.

Eventually, we evolved that into what we call our Buy Give Teach program, which is kind of this program that supports educators and nonprofits, typically in the environmental space, but also people serving underserved communities. So that can mean like in-kind donations, like donating actual bamboo toothbrushes to like, for example, we just did one with CalPreg, who they're educating on sustainability on campus and stuff like that. So it's like giving students that option to brush sustainably in their tabling events and talking about sustainability.

Or it might be, we did donations for like the Cal after the LA fires, like people who are displaced, like helping people like that out, or like families and shelters who are kind of getting on their feet. So it kind of ranges, but we like to focus mostly on organizations who are actually either promoting sustainability, but we really like people who are promoting like sustainability and education, where it's kind of like passing that torch forward. And sometimes it'll be like a monetary donation to, you know, donate to a beach cleanup, or like we sponsor a bin in Lombok, Indonesia, where it's at a school.

And typically in that area, there is not like government trash collection. So if there aren't bins, it literally goes into the ocean rivers, that kind of thing. So, you know, it sort of varies depending on what the request is from the person reaching out to us.

But we do try to focus on sustainability as our kind of core objective with that. And so we've always done that from the start. And, you know, that meant in the first year or two, we were visiting Bay Area schools and talking to them about sustainability, giving them a Mable toothbrush.

And that kind of evolved over time to work more with organizations just for scalability. And for HAY! Straws, I mean, because we were already doing that for Mable, it kind of made sense to integrate that as part of what we do for HAY! Straws, but we didn't really formalize anything until probably like two years ago, where we partnered up with the Ocean Conservatory, and we do like a monthly adoption of sea turtles. And we do sponsor like beach cleanups, and we're always happy to support, you know, organizations who are, you know, tabling events or doing sustainability projects. We'll donate, you know, we donated for like a TEDx talk in New York to the students there.

And, you know, things like that, where they're kind of working, you know, within that education sustainability space. We love supporting that as well.

Yeah. Do you find that the education piece helps to continue that mission and that vision that you all have? Or is there a different kind of motivation that that's a through line through both of those brands?

I think that's why we prefer to work with the educators around sustainability, because we feel like, you know, their voices are also reaching more people than what we could reach by ourselves. So it's sort of, you know, highlighting or giving them more resources to do the good work that they're doing. So I think, you know, that's always got a soft spot for us.

It's kind of like, that's really why we started the companies and continue to work on them. It's like this vision of like ultimately creating a cleaner world for everyone. So that that's a big part of our mission.

That's such a great legacy also for not just the companies, but for yourself and your other co-founders as well.

Yeah, thank you. Well, it's again, you got to like remind yourself some days, like why am I doing this again? And like when you have those moments where you've like gifted to an event and they're sending you like, oh, hey, everyone loved it.

Like those are kind of like proud moments where you're reminded, okay, like we're not just selling a product. We're actually like doing some good here. And I think that's sort of as a co-founder, what keeps you, you know, motivated to continue on during those hard days where you're like, what am I doing?

Can you talk a little bit about that? Was that always important to you to have that community piece or the give back piece?

Yeah, I mean, I think from starting the companies, it was always part of it. So it's always been kind of a core element or reason why we do what we do. And I think for me, that's really what gives me the extra motivation to stay and not go and work for I don't know, some other company, right?

It's like, I mean, my vision is like, I'd love to do even more, right? I think every year you're like, man, I wish we could donate more or give more or like increase our donations, right? So it is a big motivator, you know, when I look at what my impact could be as a co-founder and like helping to form the company, it's that's certainly my biggest reason for staying and wanting to continue the work.

Yeah. I love talking about big dreams and just like where you want to go. I think that's, it's so important to think about those things. Had you guys not dreamt about this sustainable toothbrush company and straws and those kinds of things, like you wouldn't exist. Where, if you're going to dream really big, like where, where's your goal? And this could be a dealer's choice.

So you can talk about where you envision the brands going or where you envision yourself personally going.

I mean, I can talk a bit about both. I think for the brands, like, you know, I'd love to see us on for Mable on more retail shelves, like the big box store retail to be that option. That's like a plastic free bamboo toothbrush.

I mean, they are out there already, but they're often like packaged in plastic. And, you know, I'd just love to see our brand at that level. I think for HAY! Straws, we'd love to be the go-to kind of hospitality product for, you know, bars, restaurants, hotels, where, you know, they think of us and instead of being a bioplastic, which is not really actually sustainable, that they're fully switching to something natural that they can feel good about, that's fully compostable. So, yeah, we'd love to see us kind of dominating that space in the future. I think for me personally, like we were just speaking about, now that I have owned and operated my own business, you know, it's more difficult for me to imagine working for other people.

So if I were to, you know, at some point do something else, like I would still love it to be in that sustainability space I think it's definitely a passion of mine. And, you know, I think there's a lot of work to be done in that space.

So whenever I talk about, oh, my next company, it always has, you know, the ideas are always related to some level of sustainable business. That's kind of where I focus my ideas. I'm like, okay, it's gonna have to be that, or I probably won't want to do it.

And it's a great motivator, I think. Well, at least in my personal experience, it's such a good motivator to have something that you're passionate about and you feel really good about, because then I'll say that I put in the same amount of hours. I started my own company about a year ago, I'm still just a one-woman shop.

We'll probably say that way, but I probably put in close to the same hours that I did working for the corporate world before that. But the stress is so much different, like I just enjoy it so much and I feel really good about it. And I just think that that's like night and day.

I think about that all the time of like could I go back and work for someone else or am I just on my own? No, because I get to make the rules and I feel really good about it from top to bottom.

Yeah, and I think that's a nice position to be in if you can make that decision, right? Because you talk to a lot of friends and they're like, I hate my job or I, you know, and you think, well, yeah, you can work for someone else and most likely hate what you do and not feel a connection to it or you can kind of build your own future reality. And I think that's a really exciting space to be in.

Yeah. And part of why I got really excited about this project, and I'll stop talking about myself in a second, but I love this so much. It's also good to, I think, show.

So it was good for me to remember and to see and be proved, proved correct about there are good companies out there that are led by good people that share my values and those things. And I had been so frustrated with, you know, I would work for a company, love the people I was working with, love the values. And then there's a leadership change.

And then I get frustrated and I'm like, this is not the same company that I started working for seven years ago, or something would just kind of switch and change. And I was getting to, and like you just said, talking to friends and family members who are also burnt out and frustrated by what was going on. And I just wanted to be able to talk to business leaders to be reminded like, oh, there are other people that are like-minded, that are not here, that are only focused on the money or these business models that like rely on ebbing and flowing and shrinking and building.

And they rely on these layoffs every year and all of these things. And I was like, you know, there's got to be a better way to do it. And there's got to be a way to like promote businesses that are doing it in a different fashion than what some of my experience was.

Yeah.

I mean, I love that. I think you've got to follow your passion. I mean, I feel like people say that all the time, but it's so true.

Like if you find what really like lights your fire and you follow it through, I think that's where the magic is.

I agree. Okay. My last question for you is, and this can be absolutely anything, there's no restrictions, but what's another business or another leader that you want to shout out for doing it the right way and making a positive impact, whether it's a boss or a co-worker or a community partner, someone that you are a purchaser of absolutely anything.

Yeah. I mean, I think I'm going to shout out this is not one person. I think this is a multiple group of people.

But for Mable, we work a ton with retailers who own zero waste stores. So these are stores that specialize in refillable products, local products. And they're always led by, they're typically actually led by women that own these.

And I just think they are a great community space. You always walk in, they feel friendly and fresh. And they've always got like cool new products that are sustainable and it's a good reminder of like, oh wow, I didn't know you could, you know, switch this one thing to make a difference in your plastic output, things like that.

So I do want to shout out to them, one, because they've always supported us, and two, I just, I personally support them and think they do a really good job educating the community and kind of like providing that local hub for things. And they're very diligent and well researched. They always try to source like locally, and they all have their own vetting systems for products and kind of like what meets their standards.

So I think if you shot with any of your local zero waste stores, you know you're going to have like ethically sustainably made products that are actually supporting like real small businesses, which I think in this current economic situation is like, you want to put your support behind these local businesses and keep them running and keep the people like us that they're buying from. It's sort of like, you know, it's this kind of anti-Amazon movement, right? They're all helping each other out.

So that's my shout out. I love them. I could game drop a few but I think just in general, they're a great group of people who deserve a shout out.

Yeah. I was actually just talking to someone about, I don't think there's one here in Louisville, Kentucky. I spend a lot of time in Kansas City, where my family mostly lives.

There's two in Kansas City that I just found out about. I was like, why do we not have these in every single city? Why can I not find one in Louisville?

If we find one-Well, I'll come to you soon because, again, in the time I've been in business, I feel like that's a growing industry and they seem to do well. People love them and that we want in a community and then another one pops up because the demand is actually there, people love them. But I have to look in Louisville.

I don't know if I know of one there, but if I do, I'll send it to you.

Yes, please. Thank you. I would love to promote them as well.

Yeah. Awesome.

Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. I wish you all the best.

This has been so wonderful talking to you.

Yeah, I know. Likewise, it's been really fun. And a good reminder for me too, why we do what we do.

So thank you.

Yeah. Folks, thanks so much for listening to the Capitalism for Good Project. Just a quick reminder that this project is supported through patreon.com/capitalismforGood.

There are weekly Between the Interviews episodes, early releases of interviews, March and other bonuses for those that subscribe through the Patreon. Support allows for this project to continue to move forward without the potential bias of traditional ads. Thank you so much for anyone that's already in that community and for anyone considering joining.

As always, please let me know what you think. And also if you have any recommendations for leaders that you see out there making a positive impact on their internal and external communities, I would love to shine a spotlight on your favorite folks. All right, that's enough.

Let's go leave this place better than we found it.